Category talk:DEC Serial Interfaces - Revision history

Jnc: /* Split QBUS/UNIBUS serial cats into sync/async? */ OK, I will probably go ahead

2023-02-15T10:30:57Z

Split QBUS/UNIBUS serial cats into sync/async?: OK, I will probably go ahead

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	== Split QBUS/UNIBUS serial cats into sync/async? ==		== Split QBUS/UNIBUS serial cats into sync/async? ==

	So I'm wonder whether the last category re-org (which added [[:Category:DEC Asynchronous Serial Interfaces]] and [[:Category:DEC Synchronous Serial Interfaces]], and tagged all serial interfaces with one of them, as well as one of [[:Category:QBUS Serial Interfaces]], [[:Category:UNIBUS Serial Interfaces]], etc, was really the right way to go.		So I'm wonder whether the last category re-org (which added [[:Category:DEC Asynchronous Serial Interfaces]] and [[:Category:DEC Synchronous Serial Interfaces]], and tagged all serial interfaces with one of them, as well as one of [[:Category:QBUS Serial Interfaces]], [[:Category:UNIBUS Serial Interfaces]], etc) was really the right way to go.

	The issue for me is not so much that all serial interface article have to have two tags, as simply that this serial interface category structure just isn't good for finding ''some'' 'natural groups' of serial interfaces. Finding relevant articles is the ''whole point'' of the category system - but the current serial interface category structure just isn't very good for finding, say, 'QBUS synchronous interfaces'.		The issue for me is not so much that all serial interface article have to have two tags, as simply that this serial interface category structure just isn't good for finding ''some'' 'natural groups' of serial interfaces. Finding relevant articles is the ''whole point'' of the category system - but the current serial interface category structure just isn't very good for finding, say, 'QBUS synchronous interfaces'.

	So I'm thinking of setting up 4 new categories ('QBUS synchronous interfaces', etc), and moving all the articles into them. Those 4 categories can then each be included in the two appropriate super-categories ('QBUS' and 'synchronous', for that one). Comments? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 04:22, 13 February 2023 (CET)		So I'm thinking of setting up 4 new categories ('QBUS synchronous interfaces', etc), and moving all the articles into them. Those 4 categories can then each be included in the two appropriate super-categories ('QBUS' and 'synchronous', for that one). Comments? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 04:22, 13 February 2023 (CET)

			: Hmm; no response. Well, that's not a problem, it's not really that big a deal. I probably am going to go ahead and do this; it's a fair amount of work, and not ''much'' gain, but the proposed system will be better than the existing one, albeit only slightly. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 11:30, 15 February 2023 (CET)

Jnc: /* Split QBUS/UNIBUS serial cats into sync/async? */ new section

2023-02-13T03:22:09Z

Split QBUS/UNIBUS serial cats into sync/async?: new section

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	: Having heard nothing, I went ahead and set up [[:Category:DEC Optional Serial Interfaces]]; if we come up with a better name, it will be easy to move it.		: Having heard nothing, I went ahead and set up [[:Category:DEC Optional Serial Interfaces]]; if we come up with a better name, it will be easy to move it.
	: I didn't set up a [[:Category:DEC Communication Controllers]] super-category, as there didn't seem to be much point to one, but if people think it would be useful, it will be easy to add. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 20:53, 16 August 2022 (CEST)		: I didn't set up a [[:Category:DEC Communication Controllers]] super-category, as there didn't seem to be much point to one, but if people think it would be useful, it will be easy to add. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 20:53, 16 August 2022 (CEST)

			== Split QBUS/UNIBUS serial cats into sync/async? ==

			So I'm wonder whether the last category re-org (which added [[:Category:DEC Asynchronous Serial Interfaces]] and [[:Category:DEC Synchronous Serial Interfaces]], and tagged all serial interfaces with one of them, as well as one of [[:Category:QBUS Serial Interfaces]], [[:Category:UNIBUS Serial Interfaces]], etc, was really the right way to go.

			The issue for me is not so much that all serial interface article have to have two tags, as simply that this serial interface category structure just isn't good for finding ''some'' 'natural groups' of serial interfaces. Finding relevant articles is the ''whole point'' of the category system - but the current serial interface category structure just isn't very good for finding, say, 'QBUS synchronous interfaces'.

			So I'm thinking of setting up 4 new categories ('QBUS synchronous interfaces', etc), and moving all the articles into them. Those 4 categories can then each be included in the two appropriate super-categories ('QBUS' and 'synchronous', for that one). Comments? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 04:22, 13 February 2023 (CET)

Jnc: /* Separate synchronous and asynchronous? */ Temporarily done; open to further tweaks

2022-08-16T18:53:57Z

Separate synchronous and asynchronous?: Temporarily done; open to further tweaks

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	:: Ideas for the 'busless' category (which, on reflection, would be ''useful'' to have, but not ''necessary'') name: 'optional' (because it's an option that has a specific place into which it plugs, 'direct' (not great; I was trying to indicate that it attaches 'directly' to the host CPU).		:: Ideas for the 'busless' category (which, on reflection, would be ''useful'' to have, but not ''necessary'') name: 'optional' (because it's an option that has a specific place into which it plugs, 'direct' (not great; I was trying to indicate that it attaches 'directly' to the host CPU).
	:: It turns out that there are probably some serial interfaces for machines before the PDP-5 that belong in this category: before the PDP-5, DEC machines did not have I/O buses; each device had a slot specially wired for it. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 02:34, 16 August 2022 (CEST)		:: It turns out that there are probably some serial interfaces for machines before the PDP-5 that belong in this category: before the PDP-5, DEC machines did not have I/O buses; each device had a slot specially wired for it. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 02:34, 16 August 2022 (CEST)

			: Having heard nothing, I went ahead and set up [[:Category:DEC Optional Serial Interfaces]]; if we come up with a better name, it will be easy to move it.
			: I didn't set up a [[:Category:DEC Communication Controllers]] super-category, as there didn't seem to be much point to one, but if people think it would be useful, it will be easy to add. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 20:53, 16 August 2022 (CEST)

Jnc: Jnc moved page Category talk:DEC Communication Controllers to Category talk:DEC Serial Interfaces without leaving a redirect: Move discussion to tie up with relevant top-level cat

2022-08-16T18:48:08Z

Jnc moved page Category talk:DEC Communication Controllers to Category talk:DEC Serial Interfaces without leaving a redirect: Move discussion to tie up with relevant top-level cat

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:48, 16 August 2022
(No difference)

Jnc: Ideas for the 'busless' category name

2022-08-16T00:34:27Z

Ideas for the 'busless' category name

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	:: So. for the moment, I have put [[:Category:DEC Serial Interfaces]] directly in [[:Category:DEC Peripherals]], but if we decide to add a [[:Category:DEC Communication Controllers]] super-category, it will be easy to move it there.		:: So. for the moment, I have put [[:Category:DEC Serial Interfaces]] directly in [[:Category:DEC Peripherals]], but if we decide to add a [[:Category:DEC Communication Controllers]] super-category, it will be easy to move it there.
	:: I have put most of the synchronous interfaces in the new [[:Category:DEC Synchronous Serial Interfaces]], and will do the asynchronous ones tomorrow. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 23:15, 15 August 2022 (CEST)		:: I have put most of the synchronous interfaces in the new [[:Category:DEC Synchronous Serial Interfaces]], and will do the asynchronous ones tomorrow. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 23:15, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

			:: Ideas for the 'busless' category (which, on reflection, would be ''useful'' to have, but not ''necessary'') name: 'optional' (because it's an option that has a specific place into which it plugs, 'direct' (not great; I was trying to indicate that it attaches 'directly' to the host CPU).
			:: It turns out that there are probably some serial interfaces for machines before the PDP-5 that belong in this category: before the PDP-5, DEC machines did not have I/O buses; each device had a slot specially wired for it. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 02:34, 16 August 2022 (CEST)

Jnc: synchronous interfaces done - any comments?

2022-08-15T21:15:56Z

synchronous interfaces done - any comments?

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	:: Is there any use having a [[:Category:DEC Communication Controllers]] super-category, which includes the network interface and serial interface categories, or should those just go straight to [[:Category:DEC Peripherals]]?		:: Is there any use having a [[:Category:DEC Communication Controllers]] super-category, which includes the network interface and serial interface categories, or should those just go straight to [[:Category:DEC Peripherals]]?
	:: I agree that synchronous and asynchronous interfaces should no longer be lumped in together; I will set up [[:Category:DEC Asynchronous Serial Interfaces]] and [[:Category:DEC Synchronous Serial Interfaces]], and start pitting things into them.		:: I agree that synchronous and asynchronous interfaces should no longer be lumped in together; I will set up [[:Category:DEC Asynchronous Serial Interfaces]] and [[:Category:DEC Synchronous Serial Interfaces]], and start pitting things into them.
	:: So I guess the only other question left is whether to have a [[:Category:DEC Non-bus Serial Interfaces]] ('Non-bus' is ~~clunks~~, but so is 'Busless'; I wonder if there is a better word), or just put them in the 'DEC Serial Interfaces' category? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 21:08, 15 August 2022 (CEST)		:: So I guess the only other question left is whether to have a [[:Category:DEC Non-bus Serial Interfaces]] ('Non-bus' is clunky, but so is 'Busless'; I wonder if there is a better word), or just put them in the 'DEC Serial Interfaces' category? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 21:08, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

			:: So. for the moment, I have put [[:Category:DEC Serial Interfaces]] directly in [[:Category:DEC Peripherals]], but if we decide to add a [[:Category:DEC Communication Controllers]] super-category, it will be easy to move it there.
			:: I have put most of the synchronous interfaces in the new [[:Category:DEC Synchronous Serial Interfaces]], and will do the asynchronous ones tomorrow. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 23:15, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

Jnc: So for DEC, 'Communication Controllers' includes network interfaces too

2022-08-15T19:08:16Z

So for DEC, 'Communication Controllers' includes network interfaces too

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	::: It is "Communication Controllers" or "Communication Options" in several DEC publications (from my personal VAX history) I know and "Ethernet" has got its own section under that as well as "Asynchronous Serial Interfaces" and "Synchronous Serial Interfaces". I don't really know whether the bus type (or non-bus) matters that much as to separate by that criterion. Synchronous and asynchronous interfaces are so different that I would not like to put those together.		::: It is "Communication Controllers" or "Communication Options" in several DEC publications (from my personal VAX history) I know and "Ethernet" has got its own section under that as well as "Asynchronous Serial Interfaces" and "Synchronous Serial Interfaces". I don't really know whether the bus type (or non-bus) matters that much as to separate by that criterion. Synchronous and asynchronous interfaces are so different that I would not like to put those together.
	::: I don't mind putting pages into multiple categories; on the contrary I found that helpful on several occasions - you (I) have it easier to find something you're looking for. [[User:Vaxorcist\|Vaxorcist]] ([[User talk:Vaxorcist\|talk]]) 19:05, 15 August 2022 (CEST)		::: I don't mind putting pages into multiple categories; on the contrary I found that helpful on several occasions - you (I) have it easier to find something you're looking for. [[User:Vaxorcist\|Vaxorcist]] ([[User talk:Vaxorcist\|talk]]) 19:05, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

			:: Ah; like I said, I can see 'Communication Controllers' including both serial lines and network interfaces - which your DEC books do also. So I think we should have a [[:Category:DEC Serial Interfaces]] to put ''just'' all the synchronous and asynchronous interfaces in. (Do note that for us, [[:Category:DEC Network Interfaces]] doesn't include ''just'' Ethernet, it also includes both [[Computer Interconnect]] and [[1822 interface]]s.)
			:: Is there any use having a [[:Category:DEC Communication Controllers]] super-category, which includes the network interface and serial interface categories, or should those just go straight to [[:Category:DEC Peripherals]]?
			:: I agree that synchronous and asynchronous interfaces should no longer be lumped in together; I will set up [[:Category:DEC Asynchronous Serial Interfaces]] and [[:Category:DEC Synchronous Serial Interfaces]], and start pitting things into them.
			:: So I guess the only other question left is whether to have a [[:Category:DEC Non-bus Serial Interfaces]] ('Non-bus' is clunks, but so is 'Busless'; I wonder if there is a better word), or just put them in the 'DEC Serial Interfaces' category? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 21:08, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

Vaxorcist at 17:05, 15 August 2022

2022-08-15T17:05:21Z

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	::* UNIBUS Serial Interfaces, QBUS Serial Interfaces, etc		::* UNIBUS Serial Interfaces, QBUS Serial Interfaces, etc
	:: and all pages go into two categories. (The alternative is to have N^2 categories - 'QBUS Asynchronous Serial Interfaces', etc - and pages only go into one; but previous discussion on a similar question - see [[Help talk:Introduction to Categories#Other cats\|here]] - seemed to agree that it's better to have fewer tiny categories, and double-categorize articles.) [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 15:17, 15 August 2022 (CEST)		:: and all pages go into two categories. (The alternative is to have N^2 categories - 'QBUS Asynchronous Serial Interfaces', etc - and pages only go into one; but previous discussion on a similar question - see [[Help talk:Introduction to Categories#Other cats\|here]] - seemed to agree that it's better to have fewer tiny categories, and double-categorize articles.) [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 15:17, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

			::: It is "Communication Controllers" or "Communication Options" in several DEC publications (from my personal VAX history) I know and "Ethernet" has got its own section under that as well as "Asynchronous Serial Interfaces" and "Synchronous Serial Interfaces". I don't really know whether the bus type (or non-bus) matters that much as to separate by that criterion. Synchronous and asynchronous interfaces are so different that I would not like to put those together.
			::: I don't mind putting pages into multiple categories; on the contrary I found that helpful on several occasions - you (I) have it easier to find something you're looking for. [[User:Vaxorcist\|Vaxorcist]] ([[User talk:Vaxorcist\|talk]]) 19:05, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

Jnc: Yes, DEC serial interfaces categories need some work

2022-08-15T13:18:19Z

Yes, DEC serial interfaces categories need some work

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	Should there be separate categories for synchronous and asynchronous serial interfaces? We already have [[:Category:UNIBUS Serial Interfaces]] and [[:Category:QBUS Serial Interfaces]], but they both contain both synchronous and asynchronous serial interfaces. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 11:58, 15 August 2022 (CEST)		Should there be separate categories for synchronous and asynchronous serial interfaces? We already have [[:Category:UNIBUS Serial Interfaces]] and [[:Category:QBUS Serial Interfaces]], but they both contain both synchronous and asynchronous serial interfaces. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 11:58, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

	Well, there are some controllers for busless systems like the MicroVax 2000 / VAXstation 2000 for example. As those don't fit into neither QBUS nor UNIBUS I created a new category. Yes, I thought of subcategories for synchronous / asynchronous serial interfaces (and there are interfaces that implement both, e.g. the DMF32), but did not implement it yet.		: Well, there are some controllers for busless systems like the MicroVax 2000 / VAXstation 2000 for example. As those don't fit into neither QBUS nor UNIBUS I created a new category. Yes, I thought of subcategories for synchronous / asynchronous serial interfaces (and there are interfaces that implement both, e.g. the DMF32), but did not implement it yet.
			: I think I should rather call it "DEC Busless Communication Controllers"... By the way: Is "busless" the correct word? Could you please rename it if "busless" is correct (or suggest another word)?
			: Maybe there should be a kind of "Super"-Category "DEC Communication Controllers" (my old category name) for all types - bus-based or busless? [[User:Vaxorcist\|Vaxorcist]] ([[User talk:Vaxorcist\|talk]]) 12:16, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

	~~I think I should rather call it "DEC Busless Communication Controllers"... By the way~~: ~~Is "busless"~~ the ~~correct word? Could you please rename it if "busless"~~ is ~~correct~~ (or ~~suggest another word~~)?		:: Yes; we clearly need a category the 'bus-less' ones can go into. Whether that is a separate category ('Non-bus Serial Interfaces'), or they just go into a parent 'Serial Interfaces' category, I do not know (yet).
			:: My question about separate categories for synchronous and asynchronous interfaces was background for a more complete re-arrangement of the 'DEC Serial Interfaces' categories (although I did not make that clear - I was just waking up :-). It would be appropriate to have a parent category for them all - although I am not sure 'Communication Controllers' is it.
	~~Maybe there should~~ be a ~~kind of "Super"~~-~~Category "DEC~~ Communication Controllers" (~~my old category name~~) ~~for~~ all ~~types~~ - ~~bus~~-~~based or busless?~~ [[User:~~Vaxorcist~~\|~~Vaxorcist~~]] ([[User talk:~~Vaxorcist~~\|talk]]) 12:16, 15 August 2022 (CEST)		:: To me, network interfaces are 'communication controllers' also. Did DEC have an accepted term to cover them all? In the PDP-11 era they just called them 'Asynchronous Communications Interfaces' and 'Synchronous Communications Interfaces' (and included Ethernet in the latter :-).
			:: So maybe something like 'DEC Serial Interfaces', with two different sets of sub-categories:
			::* DEC Asynchronous Serial Interfaces, DEC Synchronous Serial Interfaces
			::* UNIBUS Serial Interfaces, QBUS Serial Interfaces, etc
			:: and all pages go into two categories. (The alternative is to have N^2 categories - 'QBUS Asynchronous Serial Interfaces', etc - and pages only go into one; but previous discussion on a similar question - see [[Help talk:Introduction to Categories#Other cats\|here]] - seemed to agree that it's better to have fewer tiny categories, and double-categorize articles.) [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 15:17, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

Vaxorcist: /* Separate synchronous and asynchronous? */

2022-08-15T10:17:19Z

Separate synchronous and asynchronous?

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:17, 15 August 2022
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	Should there be separate categories for synchronous and asynchronous serial interfaces? We already have [[:Category:UNIBUS Serial Interfaces]] and [[:Category:QBUS Serial Interfaces]], but they both contain both synchronous and asynchronous serial interfaces. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 11:58, 15 August 2022 (CEST)		Should there be separate categories for synchronous and asynchronous serial interfaces? We already have [[:Category:UNIBUS Serial Interfaces]] and [[:Category:QBUS Serial Interfaces]], but they both contain both synchronous and asynchronous serial interfaces. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 11:58, 15 August 2022 (CEST)

			Well, there are some controllers for busless systems like the MicroVax 2000 / VAXstation 2000 for example. As those don't fit into neither QBUS nor UNIBUS I created a new category. Yes, I thought of subcategories for synchronous / asynchronous serial interfaces (and there are interfaces that implement both, e.g. the DMF32), but did not implement it yet.

			I think I should rather call it "DEC Busless Communication Controllers"... By the way: Is "busless" the correct word? Could you please rename it if "busless" is correct (or suggest another word)?

			Maybe there should be a kind of "Super"-Category "DEC Communication Controllers" (my old category name) for all types - bus-based or busless? [[User:Vaxorcist\|Vaxorcist]] ([[User talk:Vaxorcist\|talk]]) 12:16, 15 August 2022 (CEST)