Repairing un-documented MOS memory boards - Revision history

Vaxorcist: /* Repair */ Category:Hardware Guides added

2024-09-10T17:32:58Z

Repair: Category:Hardware Guides added

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:32, 10 September 2024
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	[[Category: Memory Basics]]		[[Category: Memory Basics]]
			[[Category:Hardware Guides]]

Jnc: Grammar tweaks to clarify

2024-08-26T16:33:18Z

Grammar tweaks to clarify

ForOldHack: /* minor edit sp */ analyZer.

2024-08-26T02:16:41Z

minor edit sp: analyZer.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:16, 26 August 2024
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	* physically pulling chips		* physically pulling chips
	* use of a [[program]] and [[logic ~~analyser~~]] or [[oscilloscope]]		* use of a [[program]] and [[logic analyzer]] or [[oscilloscope]]

	The choice of which one to use will depend on personal preferences, along with factors such as if the chips are [[chip socket\|socketed]] (common on MOS memory boards, to simplify repairs).		The choice of which one to use will depend on personal preferences, along with factors such as if the chips are [[chip socket\|socketed]] (common on MOS memory boards, to simplify repairs).
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	The previous technique is viable if the memory chips are in sockets, which makes the chip removal needed, less painful. If the chips are soldered in, that technique is not really feasible.		The previous technique is viable if the memory chips are in sockets, which makes the chip removal needed, less painful. If the chips are soldered in, that technique is not really feasible.

	For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic ~~analyser~~, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.		For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyzer, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.

	Write a very short program which [[loop]]s, storing a word in memory. Start with a word containing only a single '1' bit, and try using a destination location in each bank, looking for a '1' being written to that chip (you can trigger off the 'write' input to the chip; although some boards, e.g. the [[MSV11-Q QBUS memory\|MSV11-Q]], send a 'write' to all the chips, and select the one to actually use by use of the RAS or CAS signal) to see if i) your probe is on the chip which corresponds to that bit, and ii) the chip is in the bank currently under test.		Write a very short program which [[loop]]s, storing a word in memory. Start with a word containing only a single '1' bit, and try using a destination location in each bank, looking for a '1' being written to that chip (you can trigger off the 'write' input to the chip; although some boards, e.g. the [[MSV11-Q QBUS memory\|MSV11-Q]], send a 'write' to all the chips, and select the one to actually use by use of the RAS or CAS signal) to see if i) your probe is on the chip which corresponds to that bit, and ii) the chip is in the bank currently under test.

ForOldHack: /* Using a program */ added a comma.

2024-08-26T02:14:27Z

Using a program: added a comma.

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:14, 26 August 2024
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	==Using a program==		==Using a program==

	The previous technique is viable if the memory chips are in sockets, which makes the chip removal needed less painful. If the chips are soldered in, that technique is not really feasible.		The previous technique is viable if the memory chips are in sockets, which makes the chip removal needed, less painful. If the chips are soldered in, that technique is not really feasible.

	For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyser, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.		For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyser, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.

Jnc: /* Using a program */ typo

2020-10-18T12:05:26Z

Using a program: typo

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:05, 18 October 2020
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	If not, use a word with a different bit set, and repeat. (Changing the word contents, while remaining on the same chip, will almost certainly be easier than keeping the data constant, and trying different chips.) By 'floating' the 1 bit along the word, it ''should'' be possible to work out which bit is stored in that chip.		If not, use a word with a different bit set, and repeat. (Changing the word contents, while remaining on the same chip, will almost certainly be easier than keeping the data constant, and trying different chips.) By 'floating' the 1 bit along the word, it ''should'' be possible to work out which bit is stored in that chip.

	Once that chip has been identified, move onto the next chip. Again, after a few chips have been done, it may be possible to see a pattern. (This technique was used to produce the bit charts for the [[MSV11-J ~~QBUS~~ memory\|MSV11-J]] and [[MSV11-Q QBUS ~~memoryMSV11~~-Q]].)		Once that chip has been identified, move onto the next chip. Again, after a few chips have been done, it may be possible to see a pattern. (This technique was used to produce the bit charts for the [[MSV11-J memory module\|MSV11-J]] and [[MSV11-Q QBUS memory\|MSV11-Q]].)

	==Repair==		==Repair==

Jnc: /* Using a program */ typo, links

2020-10-18T11:56:06Z

Using a program: typo, links

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:56, 18 October 2020
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	==Using a program==		==Using a program==

	The previous technique is viable if the memory chips are in sockets, which makes the chip ~~remove~~ needed less painful. If the chips are soldered in, that technique is not really feasible.		The previous technique is viable if the memory chips are in sockets, which makes the chip removal needed less painful. If the chips are soldered in, that technique is not really feasible.

	For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyser, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.		For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyser, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.
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	If not, use a word with a different bit set, and repeat. (Changing the word contents, while remaining on the same chip, will almost certainly be easier than keeping the data constant, and trying different chips.) By 'floating' the 1 bit along the word, it ''should'' be possible to work out which bit is stored in that chip.		If not, use a word with a different bit set, and repeat. (Changing the word contents, while remaining on the same chip, will almost certainly be easier than keeping the data constant, and trying different chips.) By 'floating' the 1 bit along the word, it ''should'' be possible to work out which bit is stored in that chip.

	Once that chip has been identified, move onto the next chip. Again, after a few chips have been done, it may be possible to see a pattern. (This technique was used to produce the bit charts for the MSV11-J and MSV11-Q.)		Once that chip has been identified, move onto the next chip. Again, after a few chips have been done, it may be possible to see a pattern. (This technique was used to produce the bit charts for the [[MSV11-J QBUS memory\|MSV11-J]] and [[MSV11-Q QBUS memoryMSV11-Q]].)

	==Repair==		==Repair==

Jnc: typo

2020-03-12T15:30:21Z

typo

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:30, 12 March 2020
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	The first step is to see if the failures are usually static (i.e. always at the same [[address]]). If not, the issue may be the [[power supply]], or [[circuit]]ry on the board which creates needed [[voltage]]s; this page does not cover those cases. However, static errors probably indicate a failing/failed [[integrated circuit\|chip]], a common failure mode of old MOS memory chips.		The first step is to see if the failures are usually static (i.e. always at the same [[address]]). If not, the issue may be the [[power supply]], or [[circuit]]ry on the board which creates needed [[voltage]]s; this page does not cover those cases. However, static errors probably indicate a failing/failed [[integrated circuit\|chip]], a common failure mode of old MOS memory chips.

	The first step in working with one them, without a circuit diagram, is to create a table which translates memory chip to bits.		The first step in working with one of them, without a circuit diagram, is to create a table which translates memory chip to bits.

	First, one has to understand the high-level layout of the memory: examine the memory chips to see if they are YYKx1 - i.e. one bit wide. (The techniques below will work on multi-bit chips, using obvious changes, but since single-bit chips are the most common on older memory cards, the writeup here focuses on them.) Knowing the width of the [[bus]], and the number of chips, will give the number of banks of memory (needed for the table). For example, on a [[UNIBUS]] or [[QBUS]] memory card, the bus is 16 bits wide, so if there are 32 chips in the array, there will probably be 2 banks, each 16 bits wide.		First, one has to understand the high-level layout of the memory: examine the memory chips to see if they are YYKx1 - i.e. one bit wide. (The techniques below will work on multi-bit chips, using obvious changes, but since single-bit chips are the most common on older memory cards, the writeup here focuses on them.) Knowing the width of the [[bus]], and the number of chips, will give the number of banks of memory (needed for the table). For example, on a [[UNIBUS]] or [[QBUS]] memory card, the bus is 16 bits wide, so if there are 32 chips in the array, there will probably be 2 banks, each 16 bits wide.

Jnc: /* Using a program */ one more

2020-03-08T23:02:48Z

Using a program: one more

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:02, 8 March 2020
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	If not, use a word with a different bit set, and repeat. (Changing the word contents, while remaining on the same chip, will almost certainly be easier than keeping the data constant, and trying different chips.) By 'floating' the 1 bit along the word, it ''should'' be possible to work out which bit is stored in that chip.		If not, use a word with a different bit set, and repeat. (Changing the word contents, while remaining on the same chip, will almost certainly be easier than keeping the data constant, and trying different chips.) By 'floating' the 1 bit along the word, it ''should'' be possible to work out which bit is stored in that chip.

	Once that chip has been identified, move onto the next chip. Again, after a few chips have been done, it may be possible to see a pattern. (This technique was used to produce the bit ~~chart~~ for the MSV11-J.)		Once that chip has been identified, move onto the next chip. Again, after a few chips have been done, it may be possible to see a pattern. (This technique was used to produce the bit charts for the MSV11-J and MSV11-Q.)

	==Repair==		==Repair==

Jnc: /* Using a program */ Some boards use a kludge

2020-03-08T23:02:04Z

Using a program: Some boards use a kludge

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:02, 8 March 2020
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	For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyser, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.		For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyser, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.

	Write a very short program which [[loop]]s, storing a word in memory. Start with a word containing only a single '1' bit, and try using a destination location in each bank, looking for a '1' being written to that chip (you can trigger off the 'write' input to the chip) to see if i) your probe is on the chip which corresponds to that bit, and ii) the chip is in the bank currently under test.		Write a very short program which [[loop]]s, storing a word in memory. Start with a word containing only a single '1' bit, and try using a destination location in each bank, looking for a '1' being written to that chip (you can trigger off the 'write' input to the chip; although some boards, e.g. the [[MSV11-Q QBUS memory\|MSV11-Q]], send a 'write' to all the chips, and select the one to actually use by use of the RAS or CAS signal) to see if i) your probe is on the chip which corresponds to that bit, and ii) the chip is in the bank currently under test.

	If not, use a word with a different bit set, and repeat. (Changing the word contents, while remaining on the same chip, will almost certainly be easier than keeping the data ~~contant~~, and trying different chips.) By 'floating' the 1 bit along the word, it ''should'' be possible to work out which bit is stored in that chip.		If not, use a word with a different bit set, and repeat. (Changing the word contents, while remaining on the same chip, will almost certainly be easier than keeping the data constant, and trying different chips.) By 'floating' the 1 bit along the word, it ''should'' be possible to work out which bit is stored in that chip.

	Once that chip has been identified, move onto the next chip. Again, after a few chips have been done, it may be possible to see a pattern. (This technique was used to produce the bit chart for the MSV11-J.)		Once that chip has been identified, move onto the next chip. Again, after a few chips have been done, it may be possible to see a pattern. (This technique was used to produce the bit chart for the MSV11-J.)

Jnc: Mention multi-bit chips

2019-09-12T13:41:58Z

Mention multi-bit chips

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:41, 12 September 2019
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	The first step is to see if the failures are usually static (i.e. always at the same [[address]]). If not, the issue may be the [[power supply]], or [[circuit]]ry on the board which creates needed [[voltage]]s; this page does not cover those cases. However, static errors probably indicate a failing/failed [[integrated circuit\|chip]], a common failure mode of old MOS memory chips.		The first step is to see if the failures are usually static (i.e. always at the same [[address]]). If not, the issue may be the [[power supply]], or [[circuit]]ry on the board which creates needed [[voltage]]s; this page does not cover those cases. However, static errors probably indicate a failing/failed [[integrated circuit\|chip]], a common failure mode of old MOS memory chips.

	The first step in working with one them, without a circuit diagram, is to create a table which translates memory chip to bits. First, one has to understand the high-level layout of the memory: examine the memory chips to see if they are YYKx1 (i.e. one bit wide)~~; if so, knowing~~ the width of the [[bus]], and the number of chips, will give the number of banks of memory (needed for the table). For example, on a [[UNIBUS]] or [[QBUS]] memory card, the bus is 16 bits wide, so is there are 32 chips in the array, there will probably be 2 banks, each 16 bits wide.		The first step in working with one them, without a circuit diagram, is to create a table which translates memory chip to bits.

			First, one has to understand the high-level layout of the memory: examine the memory chips to see if they are YYKx1 - i.e. one bit wide. (The techniques below will work on multi-bit chips, using obvious changes, but since single-bit chips are the most common on older memory cards, the writeup here focuses on them.) Knowing the width of the [[bus]], and the number of chips, will give the number of banks of memory (needed for the table). For example, on a [[UNIBUS]] or [[QBUS]] memory card, the bus is 16 bits wide, so if there are 32 chips in the array, there will probably be 2 banks, each 16 bits wide.

	From there, there are two basic techniques to populate the table:		From there, there are two basic techniques to populate the table:
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	==Pulling chips==		==Pulling chips==

	~~Pull~~ a chip, and then store data in memory, and read it back, to try and work out which bit it is. Having done that, then repeat with other chips to try and work out which bits are stored in which chips. (Unless the designers were doing something very strange, each chip will hold the same bit in all the [[word]]s in that bank.)		The general approach is to pull a chip, and then store data in memory, and read it back, to try and work out which bit that chip is. Having done that, then repeat with other chips to try and work out which bits are stored in which chips. (Unless the designers were doing something very strange, each chip will hold the same bit in all the [[word]]s in that bank.)

	Usually a missing chip results in bits stored in that chip reading as '0', but it's possible they will read back as '1'. (The [[MSV11-J QBUS memory]] operates ~~that~~ way, for instance.) To test for the first possibility, start by finding a location in each bank that can be written to all 0's and all 1's (read back after writing, to verify).		Usually a missing chip results in bits stored in that chip reading as '0', but it's possible they will read back as '1'. (The [[MSV11-J QBUS memory]] operates in the latter way, for instance.) To test for the first possibility, start by finding a location in each bank that can be written to all 0's and all 1's (read back after writing, to verify).

	Then pull a chip, and then write all 1's to that word in each bank, and read it back. If one now has a 0 bit, congratulations: i) that verified that missing chips read as '0', ii) indicates which bank that chip is part of, and iii) the 0 bit indicates which bit that chip is - fill in that entry in the chip<->bit chart.		Then pull a chip, and then write all 1's to that word in each bank, and read it back. If one now has a 0 bit, congratulations: i) that verified that missing chips read as '0', ii) indicates which bank that chip is part of, and iii) the 0 bit indicates which bit that chip is - fill in that entry in the chip<->bit chart.
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	==Using a program==		==Using a program==

	The previous technique is viable if the memory chips are in sockets, which makes the chip remove needed less painful. If the chips are soldered in, that technique is ~~infeasible~~.		The previous technique is viable if the memory chips are in sockets, which makes the chip remove needed less painful. If the chips are soldered in, that technique is not really feasible.

	For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyser, or oscilloscope, can be ~~use~~) to that pin.		For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyser, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.

	Write a very short program which [[loop]]s, storing a word in memory. Start with a word containing only a single '1' bit, and try using a destination in each bank, looking for a '1' being written to that chip (you can trigger off the 'write' input) to see if i) your probe is on the chip which corresponds to that bit, and ii) the chip is in the bank currently under test.		Write a very short program which [[loop]]s, storing a word in memory. Start with a word containing only a single '1' bit, and try using a destination location in each bank, looking for a '1' being written to that chip (you can trigger off the 'write' input to the chip) to see if i) your probe is on the chip which corresponds to that bit, and ii) the chip is in the bank currently under test.

	If not, use a word with a different bit set, and repeat. (Changing the word contents, while remaining on the same chip, will almost certainly be easier than keeping the data contant, and trying different chips.) By 'floating' the 1 bit along the word, it ''should'' be possible to work out which bit is stored in that chip.		If not, use a word with a different bit set, and repeat. (Changing the word contents, while remaining on the same chip, will almost certainly be easier than keeping the data contant, and trying different chips.) By 'floating' the 1 bit along the word, it ''should'' be possible to work out which bit is stored in that chip.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:33, 26 August 2024
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	The first step in working with one of them, without a circuit diagram, is to create a table which translates memory chip to bits.		The first step in working with one of them, without a circuit diagram, is to create a table which translates memory chip to bits.

	First, one has to understand the high-level layout of the memory: examine the memory chips to see if they are YYKx1 - i.e. one bit wide. (The techniques below will work on multi-bit chips, using obvious changes, but since single-bit chips are the most common on older memory cards, the writeup here focuses on them.) Knowing the width of the [[bus]], and the number of chips, will give the number of banks of memory (needed for the table). For example, on a [[UNIBUS]] or [[QBUS]] memory card, the bus is 16 bits wide, so if there are 32 chips in the array, there will probably be 2 banks, each 16 bits wide.		First, one has to understand the high-level layout of the memory: examine the memory chips to see if they are YYKx1 - i.e. one bit wide. (The techniques below will work on multi-bit chips, using obvious changes, but since single-bit chips are the most common on older memory cards, the writeup here focuses on them.) Knowing the width of the [[bus]], and the number of chips, will usually give the number of banks of memory (needed for the table). For example, on a [[UNIBUS]] or [[QBUS]] memory card, the bus is 16 bits wide, so if there are 32 1-bit-wide chips in the array, there will probably be 2 banks, each 16 bits wide.

	From there, there are two basic techniques to populate the table:		From there, there are two basic techniques to populate the table:
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	==Pulling chips==		==Pulling chips==

	The general approach is to pull a chip, and then store data in memory, and read it back, to try and work out which bit that chip is. Having done that, then repeat with other chips to try and work out which bits are stored in which chips. (Unless the designers were doing something very strange, each chip will hold the same bit in all the [[word]]s in that bank.)		The general approach is to pull a chip, and then store data in memory, and read it back, to try and work out which bit is stored in that chip. Having done that, then repeat with other chips, to try and work out which bits are stored in which chips. (Unless the designers were doing something very strange, each chip will hold the same bit in all the [[word]]s in that bank.)

	Usually a missing chip results in bits stored in that chip reading as '0', but it's possible they will read back as '1'. (The [[MSV11-J QBUS memory]] operates in the latter way, for instance.) To test for the first possibility, start by finding a location in each bank that can be written to all 0's and all 1's (read back after writing, to verify).		Usually a missing chip results in bits stored in that chip reading as '0', but it's possible they will read back as '1'. (The [[MSV11-J QBUS memory]] operates in the latter way, for instance.) To test for the first possibility, start by finding a location in each bank that can be written to all 0's and all 1's (read back after writing, to verify).

	Then pull a chip, and then write all 1's to that word in each bank, and read it back. If one now has a 0 bit, congratulations: i) that verified that missing chips read as '0', ii) indicates which bank that chip is part of, and iii) the 0 bit indicates which bit that chip is - fill in that entry in the chip<->bit chart.		Then pull a chip, and then write all 1's to that word in each bank, and read it back. If one bank now has a 0 bit, congratulations: i) that verified that missing chips read as '0', ii) indicates which bank that chip is part of, and iii) the 0 bit indicates which bit that chip is - fill in that entry in the chip<->bit chart.

	If not, try writing 0's to the words in each bank, and check for a '1' bit: if so, i) missing chips read as 1, etc. If neither this or the above is true, there's an issue.		If not, try writing 0's to the words in each bank, and check for a '1' bit: if so, i) missing chips read as 1, etc. If neither this or the above is true, there's an issue.

	Otherwise, try pulling another chip, and work out which bit that one is, and add it to the chart. Repeat for all the memory chips - although if you're lucky, after a couple you might find a pattern, and be able to predict which chips hold which bits. (But not always; many are random; see e.g. [[Q-RAM 11]] and [[NS23M]] for boards in which the bit assignment to chips is fairly random.) If there does seems to be a pattern, do a few spot tests of the predictions to make sure the hypothesized pattern is correct.		Otherwise, try pulling another chip, and work out which bit that one is, and add it to the chart. Repeat for all the memory chips - although if you're lucky, after a couple you might find a pattern, and be able to predict which chips hold which bits. (But not always; many memories are random; see e.g. [[Q-RAM 11]] and [[NS23M]] for boards in which the bit assignment to chips is fairly random.) If there does seems to be a pattern, do a few spot tests of the predictions, to make sure the hypothesized pattern is correct.

	==Using a program==		==Using a program==

	The previous technique is viable if the memory chips are in sockets, which makes the chip removal needed, less painful~~. If~~ the chips are soldered in, that technique is not really feasible.		The previous technique is viable if the memory chips are in sockets, which makes the chip removal (if needed) less painful; if the chips are soldered in, that technique is not really feasible.

	For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit, can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyzer, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.		For such boards, storing a word with a single '1' bit can be used to the same effect. To start, the data sheet for the memory chips used will indicate which pin is the 'data in' pin. Connect the test device (either a logic analyzer, or oscilloscope, can be used) to that pin.

	Write a very short program which [[loop]]s, storing a word in memory. Start with a word containing only a single '1' bit, and try using a destination location in each bank, looking for a '1' being written to that chip (you can trigger off the 'write' input to the chip; although some boards, e.g. the [[MSV11-Q QBUS memory\|MSV11-Q]], send a 'write' to all the chips, and select the one to actually use by use of the RAS or CAS signal) to see if i) your probe is on the chip which corresponds to that bit, and ii) the chip is in the bank currently under test.		Write a very short program which [[loop]]s, storing a word in memory. Start with a word containing only a single '1' bit, and try using a destination location in each bank, looking for a '1' being written to that chip (you can trigger off the 'write' input to the chip; although some boards, e.g. the [[MSV11-Q QBUS memory\|MSV11-Q]], send a 'write' to all the chips, and select the one to actually use by use of the RAS or CAS signal) to see if i) your probe is on the chip which corresponds to that bit, and ii) the chip is in the bank currently under test.