Talk:KS11 Memory Protection and Relocation option - Revision history

Larsbrinkhoff: /* And from Bob Supnik */ Binary form of emulation found.

2024-03-05T06:12:08Z

‎And from Bob Supnik: Binary form of emulation found.

Jnc: This is so old, I am not sure Bob can help - but the code might be all that is needed

2024-02-29T08:34:04Z

This is so old, I am not sure Bob can help - but the code might be all that is needed

Larsbrinkhoff: /* And from Bob Supnik */ KS11 hardware registers.

2024-02-29T08:03:06Z

‎And from Bob Supnik: KS11 hardware registers.

Larsbrinkhoff: /* And from Bob Supnik */ KS11 simulation in MIMIC?

2024-02-29T07:58:20Z

‎And from Bob Supnik: KS11 simulation in MIMIC?

Larsbrinkhoff: /* And my axe */

2023-06-08T17:57:24Z

‎And my axe

Larsbrinkhoff: From Clem Cole; also not much.

2023-06-08T17:56:55Z

From Clem Cole; also not much.

Jnc: Jnc moved page Talk:KS11 memory management option to Talk:KS11 Memory Protection and Relocation option without leaving a redirect: Found the official DEC name

2023-05-17T20:28:39Z

Jnc moved page Talk:KS11 memory management option to Talk:KS11 Memory Protection and Relocation option without leaving a redirect: Found the official DEC name

Jnc: /* And from Bob Supnik */ new section

2023-05-17T02:41:28Z

‎And from Bob Supnik: new section

Jnc: Ken Thompson's memory of it

2023-05-17T02:16:36Z

Ken Thompson's memory of it

New page

==Ken Thompson's memory of it==

Ken was nice enough to respond to a query asking for help from old-timers; here is his brief reply:

: i did all the programming for it.
: it was based on the pdp-10 memory map. it had 2 pages growing toward each other and some horse crap to let the har[d]ware multiply unit shine through.
: sorry, i dont remember too many details.
which, alas, does not really add much to what little we know. [[User:Jnc|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc|talk]]) 04:16, 17 May 2023 (CEST)

@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 :: Given how long ago he wrote that code (it's in PDP-10 assembler, so it long pre-dates SIMH), I'm not sure he will remember much more than he has already given us.
 :: Much more fruitful would be to find all the code of that simulator, and examine it - if the code to simulate the KS11 wasn't diked, it should be possible to re-create a programming manual for the KS11 from it. [[User:Jnc|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc|talk]]) 09:33, 29 February 2024 (CET)
 == And my axe ==

@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 : Maybe we should talk to Supnik again.  I believe this is part of his MIMIC simulator.  https://github.com/TYMCOM-X/169283.tape/blob/f58dedd26328b5c0ba3fd2a76f722194df41d933/oper/ks11s#L67-L85 [[User:Larsbrinkhoff|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff|talk]]) 08:58, 29 February 2024 (CET)
 : Another file has the KS11 register set: https://github.com/TYMCOM-X/169283.tape/blob/f58dedd26328b5c0ba3fd2a76f722194df41d933/oper/ks11dd#L84-L91 [[User:Larsbrinkhoff|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff|talk]]) 09:02, 29 February 2024 (CET)
 == And my axe ==
@@ Line 27: / Line 30: @@
 and
 : we only have some information from UNIX2 and 3 when run on an 11/20 with a KS11 - what we don't know is how much physical memory was installed. We know it worked as a bus repeater, so it's possible it could have supported 18 bits of Unibus.

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:03, 29 February 2024
Line 19:		Line 19:

	: Maybe we should talk to Supnik again. I believe this is part of his MIMIC simulator. https://github.com/TYMCOM-X/169283.tape/blob/f58dedd26328b5c0ba3fd2a76f722194df41d933/oper/ks11s#L67-L85 [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 08:58, 29 February 2024 (CET)		: Maybe we should talk to Supnik again. I believe this is part of his MIMIC simulator. https://github.com/TYMCOM-X/169283.tape/blob/f58dedd26328b5c0ba3fd2a76f722194df41d933/oper/ks11s#L67-L85 [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 08:58, 29 February 2024 (CET)
		+	: Another file has the KS11 register set: https://github.com/TYMCOM-X/169283.tape/blob/f58dedd26328b5c0ba3fd2a76f722194df41d933/oper/ks11dd#L84-L91 [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 09:02, 29 February 2024 (CET)

	== And my axe ==		== And my axe ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:58, 29 February 2024
Line 17:		Line 17:

	So still some important open questions, but this adds a bit more. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 04:41, 17 May 2023 (CEST)		So still some important open questions, but this adds a bit more. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 04:41, 17 May 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	: Maybe we should talk to Supnik again. I believe this is part of his MIMIC simulator. https://github.com/TYMCOM-X/169283.tape/blob/f58dedd26328b5c0ba3fd2a76f722194df41d933/oper/ks11s#L67-L85 [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 08:58, 29 February 2024 (CET)

	== And my axe ==		== And my axe ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:57, 8 June 2023
Line 22:		Line 22:
	Clem Cole wrote me:		Clem Cole wrote me:
	: One of my old friends from DEC that worked in CSS, validated our belief that KS11 is supposed to have been modeled after the KA10 MMU.		: One of my old friends from DEC that worked in CSS, validated our belief that KS11 is supposed to have been modeled after the KA10 MMU.
		+	and
		+	: we only have some information from UNIX2 and 3 when run on an 11/20 with a KS11 - what we don't know is how much physical memory was installed. We know it worked as a bus repeater, so it's possible it could have supported 18 bits of Unibus.

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:56, 8 June 2023
Line 17:		Line 17:

	So still some important open questions, but this adds a bit more. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 04:41, 17 May 2023 (CEST)		So still some important open questions, but this adds a bit more. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 04:41, 17 May 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	== And my axe ==
		+
		+	Clem Cole wrote me:
		+	: One of my old friends from DEC that worked in CSS, validated our belief that KS11 is supposed to have been modeled after the KA10 MMU.

← Older revision	Revision as of 20:28, 17 May 2023
(No difference)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:41, 17 May 2023
Line 7:		Line 7:
	: sorry, i dont remember too many details.		: sorry, i dont remember too many details.
	which, alas, does not really add much to what little we know. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 04:16, 17 May 2023 (CEST)		which, alas, does not really add much to what little we know. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 04:16, 17 May 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	== And from Bob Supnik ==
		+
		+	Bob's reply to my query:
		+
		+	: The KS11 created a PDP-10 (KA) style memory management system for the 11/20: that is, high-segment (instructions, in theory, and shareable, in theory) and low-segment (data). It did create a user vs monitor mode. It [did] support memory expansion, although that may have required a separate option, the MX11. It did not, IIRC, do IO mapping (IO scatter/gather). Because the high and low segments were physically contiguous, scatter/gather wasn't needed, only a "simple" relocation and bounds check on DMA transfers.
		+
		+	: The high/low segmentation wasn't automatic; that is, it didn't function like I/D space in official memory management. Rather, the software writer had to organize a program into two .psects - a "pure" instruction segment and an "impure" data segment. The stack was always impure; the 11/20 didn't have the MARK instruction to screw that up.
		+
		+	So still some important open questions, but this adds a bit more. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 04:41, 17 May 2023 (CEST)