Talk:Xerox Graphics Printer - Revision history

Jnc: /* XGP-11 code */ I think my memory has dropped a bit here

2024-11-20T10:01:01Z

‎XGP-11 code: I think my memory has dropped a bit here

Larsbrinkhoff: /* XGPPDP-11 interface */ It's the SAIL interface.

2024-02-04T06:22:40Z

‎XGPPDP-11 interface: It's the SAIL interface.

Jnc: /* XGPPDP-11 interface */ Any progress on the SUDS drawings?

2024-02-03T20:36:01Z

‎XGPPDP-11 interface: Any progress on the SUDS drawings?

Larsbrinkhoff: /* XGPPDP-11 interface */ Name good; SUDS drawings bad.

2023-09-13T16:28:42Z

‎XGPPDP-11 interface: Name good; SUDS drawings bad.

Jnc: /* XGPPDP-11 interface */ How about MIT UNIBUS XGP interface?

2023-09-13T12:36:15Z

‎XGPPDP-11 interface: How about MIT UNIBUS XGP interface?

Larsbrinkhoff: /* XGPPDP-11 interface */ Naming suggestion.

2023-09-13T06:42:01Z

‎XGPPDP-11 interface: Naming suggestion.

Jnc: /* XGPPDP-11 interface */ OK, we ought to have a page here for it

2023-09-12T21:02:18Z

‎XGPPDP-11 interface: OK, we ought to have a page here for it

Larsbrinkhoff: /* XGPPDP-11 interface */ Maybe MIT got something from CMU, but unclear what exactly.

2023-09-12T18:35:40Z

‎XGPPDP-11 interface: Maybe MIT got something from CMU, but unclear what exactly.

Larsbrinkhoff: /* XGPPDP-11 interface */ I got as far as an infinite loop.

2023-09-12T18:26:20Z

‎XGPPDP-11 interface: I got as far as an infinite loop.

Jnc: /* XGPPDP-11 interface */ What do you have so far?

2023-09-12T18:03:49Z

‎XGPPDP-11 interface: What do you have so far?

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 ::: VECTRS:	RTS PC
 :: Looks like they were planning some vector support that either never got done, or got ripped out?
-:: It's interesting to see this code that drives the XGP, because when we got the Dover, it already had a spooler on the Alto that drove it, which included the code to take PRESS files and generate bits to send to the Dover, and I have this vague memory that we never had that source. I'm pretty sure we never messed with that (in fact, when Dave Clark added the code to that machine to talk IP/UDP and [[TFTP]] on it, and had it running alongside the PARC code that drove the Dover and did [[EFTP]] over PUP [which is what the AI Lab crowd used to talk to it - there's a protocol translator in the AI-CHAOS-11 - which is why that machine was retained after the Rubin interface to AI died] I think he had to use the existing Alto multi-tasking mecanism.)
+:: It's interesting to see this code that drives the XGP, because when we got the [[Dover]], it already had a spooler on the [[Alto]] that drove it, which included the code to take PRESS files and generate bits to send to the Dover, and I have this vague memory that we never had that source. I'm pretty sure we never messed with that (in fact, when Dave Clark added the code to that machine to talk IP/UDP and [[TFTP]] on it, and had it running alongside the PARC code that drove the Dover and did [[EFTP]] over PUP [which is what the AI Lab crowd used to talk to it - there's a protocol translator in the AI-CHAOS-11 - which is why that machine was retained after the Rubin interface to AI died] I think he had to use the existing Alto multi-tasking mechanism.)
 :: Is there any documentation at all on the XGP<->PDP-11 interface, do you know? [[User:Jnc|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc|talk]]) 14:49, 11 September 2023 (CEST)
 ::: I don't think so... hmm, maybe there is SUDS schematics since it's contemporary with the TV-11.  There is documentation for the PDP-10-to-XGP-11 protocol, but not the XGP hardware, as far as I know.
 ::: I did start on a XGP hardware emulation for SIMH based on the XGP-11 source code, but as you say, it's not straightforward.  I think a mix of reading and understanding the code, and dynamic analysis a.k.a run-it-and-see-what-happens is the way forward. [[User:Larsbrinkhoff|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff|talk]]) 07:50, 12 September 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:22, 4 February 2024
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	::: Any progress on reading them? Or were those the SAIL interface? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 21:35, 3 February 2024 (CET)		::: Any progress on reading them? Or were those the SAIL interface? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 21:35, 3 February 2024 (CET)
		+
		+	:::: It's the SAIL interface. Still progress reading the DRW files, but there were also PLT files in the same directory. I could convert those to SVG easily, which is what I sent you the other day. [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 07:22, 4 February 2024 (CET)

@@ Line 53: / Line 53: @@
 :::: How about [[MIT UNIBUS XGP interface]]? The 'UNIBUS' both i) says what's on the non-XGP side, and ii) makes it clear we're talking about hardware. [[User:Jnc|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc|talk]]) 14:35, 13 September 2023 (CEST)
 ::::: Ok, sounds good! [[User:Larsbrinkhoff|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff|talk]]) 18:28, 13 September 2023 (CEST)
-:::: Have any SUDS files, or anything at all, shown up on it? [[User:Jnc|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc|talk]]) 14:35, 13 September 2023 (CEST)
-::::: Yes, there's a set of SUDS drawings from 1973.  The bad news is it's an old format so they are not easy to view or print.  I'm working on it. [[User:Larsbrinkhoff|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff|talk]]) 18:28, 13 September 2023 (CEST)
+: Have any SUDS files, or anything at all, shown up on it? [[User:Jnc|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc|talk]]) 14:35, 13 September 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:28, 13 September 2023
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	:::: How about [[MIT UNIBUS XGP interface]]? The 'UNIBUS' both i) says what's on the non-XGP side, and ii) makes it clear we're talking about hardware. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 14:35, 13 September 2023 (CEST)		:::: How about [[MIT UNIBUS XGP interface]]? The 'UNIBUS' both i) says what's on the non-XGP side, and ii) makes it clear we're talking about hardware. [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 14:35, 13 September 2023 (CEST)
		+	::::: Ok, sounds good! [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 18:28, 13 September 2023 (CEST)
	:::: Have any SUDS files, or anything at all, shown up on it? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 14:35, 13 September 2023 (CEST)		:::: Have any SUDS files, or anything at all, shown up on it? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 14:35, 13 September 2023 (CEST)
		+	::::: Yes, there's a set of SUDS drawings from 1973. The bad news is it's an old format so they are not easy to view or print. I'm working on it. [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 18:28, 13 September 2023 (CEST)

@@ Line 44: / Line 44: @@
 :: OK, we ought to have a page here for the MIT PDP-11<->XGP interface. What do you want to call it? (Something with 'XGP11' in it, by analogy with [[RK11]], I would think? 'XGP-11' can be the name for the PDP-11 which drives the XGP.)
 :: It will just cover what the hardware does; the 'format for data sent to the XGP-11' (covered [https://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/master/doc/info/xgp.24 here]) is of course a mixture of that, and things that are implemented in the XGP-11 software.
 :: I found something there that might reflect of my speculation above about the scan line format:
 ::: Each line consists of a header, specifying how long it is, which line it is to be printed upon, and options .. These two words of header are followed by the line in the format required by the XGP interface.
@@ Line 50: / Line 49: @@
 ::: The second PDP-11 word is the scan line upon which this line is to be printed.
 :: I wonder if that BNULL line above is in this format; i.e. if that header is understood by the XGP11  hardware? [[User:Jnc|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc|talk]]) 23:02, 12 September 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:02, 12 September 2023
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	::: I somehow have the impression that MIT inherited something with regards to the XGP from CMU. They do use the same KST font files. [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 20:35, 12 September 2023 (CEST)		::: I somehow have the impression that MIT inherited something with regards to the XGP from CMU. They do use the same KST font files. [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 20:35, 12 September 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	:: OK, we ought to have a page here for the MIT PDP-11<->XGP interface. What do you want to call it? (Something with 'XGP11' in it, by analogy with [[RK11]], I would think? 'XGP-11' can be the name for the PDP-11 which drives the XGP.)
		+	:: It will just cover what the hardware does; the 'format for data sent to the XGP-11' (covered [https://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/master/doc/info/xgp.24 here]) is of course a mixture of that, and things that are implemented in the XGP-11 software.
		+	:: I found something there that might reflect of my speculation above about the scan line format:
		+	::: Each line consists of a header, specifying how long it is, which line it is to be printed upon, and options .. These two words of header are followed by the line in the format required by the XGP interface.
		+	::: The first PDP-11 word in each line is the number of PDP-11 WORDS not bytes used for this scan line, including itself and the rest of the header. ..
		+	::: The second PDP-11 word is the scan line upon which this line is to be printed.
		+	:: I wonder if that BNULL line above is in this format; i.e. if that header is understood by the XGP11 hardware? [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 23:02, 12 September 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:35, 12 September 2023
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	::: Yes, spec would be nice! I last touched this two years ago: https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/old-simh/blob/lars/xgp/PDP11/pdp11_xgp.c		::: Yes, spec would be nice! I last touched this two years ago: https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/old-simh/blob/lars/xgp/PDP11/pdp11_xgp.c
	::: As you can see, I didn't solve the riddle of the scanline length. There's a for loop without an ending condition! [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 20:26, 12 September 2023 (CEST)		::: As you can see, I didn't solve the riddle of the scanline length. There's a for loop without an ending condition! [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 20:26, 12 September 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	::: I somehow have the impression that MIT inherited something with regards to the XGP from CMU. They do use the same KST font files. [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 20:35, 12 September 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:26, 12 September 2023
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	:: Ah, so you will need a programming specification for the MIT PDP-11<->XGP interface. What do you have so far?		:: Ah, so you will need a programming specification for the MIT PDP-11<->XGP interface. What do you have so far?
	:: I wonder if there is any connection to the CMU one? (It also used a PDP-11.) [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 20:03, 12 September 2023 (CEST)		:: I wonder if there is any connection to the CMU one? (It also used a PDP-11.) [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 20:03, 12 September 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	::: Yes, spec would be nice! I last touched this two years ago: https://github.com/larsbrinkhoff/old-simh/blob/lars/xgp/PDP11/pdp11_xgp.c
		+	::: As you can see, I didn't solve the riddle of the scanline length. There's a for loop without an ending condition! [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 20:26, 12 September 2023 (CEST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:03, 12 September 2023
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	: Yes, that is the plan. We had such great success running the TV-11 code in emulation and sharing memory with the KA10, so I'd like to do the same for the XGP-11 (and possibly more). [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 18:44, 12 September 2023 (CEST)		: Yes, that is the plan. We had such great success running the TV-11 code in emulation and sharing memory with the KA10, so I'd like to do the same for the XGP-11 (and possibly more). [[User:Larsbrinkhoff\|Larsbrinkhoff]] ([[User talk:Larsbrinkhoff\|talk]]) 18:44, 12 September 2023 (CEST)
		+
		+	:: Ah, so you will need a programming specification for the MIT PDP-11<->XGP interface. What do you have so far?
		+	:: I wonder if there is any connection to the CMU one? (It also used a PDP-11.) [[User:Jnc\|Jnc]] ([[User talk:Jnc\|talk]]) 20:03, 12 September 2023 (CEST)